Topics

Dead Battery

Mike Stone
 

Both a friend of mine and have had a situation where or batteries lost their charge within a few days when in the Morserino, and in both cases neither battery would take a charge, either using the Morserino or a drop in charger.  I presume that we hadn’t turned off our Morserinos after using them, but my question is whether or not it’s normal that these small batteries, once discharged, cannot be recharged.  The two batteries were of different makes.

On Jul 29, 2020, at 6:26 AM, Tim McClellan <mcclellan.tim@...> wrote:

Hi. I appear to have successfully connected my new Morserino to my home wi-fi network (My Wi-fi router details appear in ‘check wi-fi’ on the device) but I have a problem in getting to the screen on my pc or iPad to access the ‘cq.morserino.info’ server.
I’m looking for some advice, please, on how to access the internet page (and hence get to the third field) to enter the server details once the Morserino has initially been set up to access Wi-fi. The initial set up was fine but I did not enter any details in the third field at that time.  I appreciate that once set up, entering ‘m32.local’ does not take me to the page on my computer to input the appropriate details. 
I can’t find details on how to do this, I am sure it will be straightforward and something that I have missed.  
Much appreciated.  73. Tim G4XWJ 


Gwen Patton
 

Make sure whatever battery you get for the Morserino has protection circuits built in, not only for overcharge prevention, but for overDIScharge prevention. From the basic design of the Morserino, if you use the "Put To Sleep" option, this is a SOFT shutdown -- it's still sitting there, cycling, polling every so often to detect if you hit the button again. This will, in a few days, drain the battery. Get into the habit of ALWAYS shutting it off with the slide switch.

LiPo batteries that don't have overdischarge protection circuits will discharge so far that the energy needed to kick it back into a charged state is higher than the overcharge limit, so it won't charge anymore. It's like letting a car battery discharge too deeply -- it causes irreversible chemical changes or states that will no longer allow the battery to build a charge again. All charging a battery does is put energy back into the chemical reaction, reversing the reaction that gave up power to your device. If that reaction can no longer take place because the agents in the battery have been completely exhausted, you can't reverse that process anymore by charging it. The battery is toast, and you need a new one that hasn't been completely exhausted.

In lead-acid batteries, lead "whiskers" grow that short out one or more cells when you overdischarge it. Charging won't dissolve those whiskers and restore the path that lets that cell charge again. Instead, it does what any other short would do -- it turns your charge energy into heat in that cell, and can cause the battery to explode. So any overcharge circuit will keep it from absorbing that much energy, lest it cause the battery to suffer a Sudden Entropic Event Rapid Disassembly. (Leaving you SEERD. hi hi)

So when you get a replacement battery, make sure it has both overcharge and overDIScharge circuitry...or better yet, get into the habit of shutting it down with the manual hard switch. Soft switches do NOT turn the device off, and never did.

The batteries I bought (by Tattu) aren't available from the supplier I used (Amazon), but THIS source on Amazon may suffice: https://www.amazon.com/Fytoo-Battery-Aircraft-Helicopter-Accessories/dp/B0856WWW48/  They have the Molex connector on them, but check the polarity to make sure the connections match the Morserino. You also get a nifty charger for them. I'm tempted to get a set of these, partly to test them out, but also to get that charger!

These batteries say they have protection circuits, but only for overcharge and short-circuit. Nothing is said explicitly about overdischarge, but the overdischarge process frequently creates an internal short-circuit, so maybe it'd work...but since it isn't mentioned explicitly, I wouldn't expect them to protect for that. I don't know that my batteries are overdischarge protected either, but I always use the hard switch, and ignore that the Sleep function even exists.

For an explanation of the overdischarge process, see here: https://www.nature.com/articles/srep30248

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
73,
Gwen, NG3P


On Wed, Jul 29, 2020 at 7:58 AM Mike Stone <micacycle@...> wrote:
Both a friend of mine and have had a situation where or batteries lost their charge within a few days when in the Morserino, and in both cases neither battery would take a charge, either using the Morserino or a drop in charger.  I presume that we hadn’t turned off our Morserinos after using them, but my question is whether or not it’s normal that these small batteries, once discharged, cannot be recharged.  The two batteries were of different makes.

On Jul 29, 2020, at 6:26 AM, Tim McClellan <mcclellan.tim@...> wrote:

Hi. I appear to have successfully connected my new Morserino to my home wi-fi network (My Wi-fi router details appear in ‘check wi-fi’ on the device) but I have a problem in getting to the screen on my pc or iPad to access the ‘cq.morserino.info’ server.
I’m looking for some advice, please, on how to access the internet page (and hence get to the third field) to enter the server details once the Morserino has initially been set up to access Wi-fi. The initial set up was fine but I did not enter any details in the third field at that time.  I appreciate that once set up, entering ‘m32.local’ does not take me to the page on my computer to input the appropriate details. 
I can’t find details on how to do this, I am sure it will be straightforward and something that I have missed.  
Much appreciated.  73. Tim G4XWJ 


Mike Stone
 

Gwen, NG3P,

Thanks for the quick and detailed explanation about discharging the LiPo batteries.

These batteries and charger appear to be a good deal.  https://www.amazon.com/Fytoo-Battery-Aircraft-Helicopter-Accessories/dp/B0856WWW48 However, if the polarity is not correct for the Morserino, charging them would pose a problem after switching polarity on the batteries.

73
Mike, N1VE



On Jul 29, 2020, at 10:51 AM, Gwen Patton <ardrhi@...> wrote:

Gwen, NG3P

Gwen Patton
 

At that point, reverse the connections on the Morserino.

On Wed, Jul 29, 2020, 12:52 PM Mike Stone <micacycle@...> wrote:

Gwen, NG3P,

Thanks for the quick and detailed explanation about discharging the LiPo batteries.

These batteries and charger appear to be a good deal.  https://www.amazon.com/Fytoo-Battery-Aircraft-Helicopter-Accessories/dp/B0856WWW48 However, if the polarity is not correct for the Morserino, charging them would pose a problem after switching polarity on the batteries.

73
Mike, N1VE



On Jul 29, 2020, at 10:51 AM, Gwen Patton <ardrhi@...> wrote:

Gwen, NG3P

Laura Robertson
 

Could a scheduled Zoom Morserino forum get on the calendar?  Maybe a collaborative effort live can help all.  I know I’d benefit from it.




On Jul 29, 2020, at 10:51 AM, Gwen Patton <ardrhi@...> wrote:


Make sure whatever battery you get for the Morserino has protection circuits built in, not only for overcharge prevention, but for overDIScharge prevention. From the basic design of the Morserino, if you use the "Put To Sleep" option, this is a SOFT shutdown -- it's still sitting there, cycling, polling every so often to detect if you hit the button again. This will, in a few days, drain the battery. Get into the habit of ALWAYS shutting it off with the slide switch.

LiPo batteries that don't have overdischarge protection circuits will discharge so far that the energy needed to kick it back into a charged state is higher than the overcharge limit, so it won't charge anymore. It's like letting a car battery discharge too deeply -- it causes irreversible chemical changes or states that will no longer allow the battery to build a charge again. All charging a battery does is put energy back into the chemical reaction, reversing the reaction that gave up power to your device. If that reaction can no longer take place because the agents in the battery have been completely exhausted, you can't reverse that process anymore by charging it. The battery is toast, and you need a new one that hasn't been completely exhausted.

In lead-acid batteries, lead "whiskers" grow that short out one or more cells when you overdischarge it. Charging won't dissolve those whiskers and restore the path that lets that cell charge again. Instead, it does what any other short would do -- it turns your charge energy into heat in that cell, and can cause the battery to explode. So any overcharge circuit will keep it from absorbing that much energy, lest it cause the battery to suffer a Sudden Entropic Event Rapid Disassembly. (Leaving you SEERD. hi hi)

So when you get a replacement battery, make sure it has both overcharge and overDIScharge circuitry...or better yet, get into the habit of shutting it down with the manual hard switch. Soft switches do NOT turn the device off, and never did.

The batteries I bought (by Tattu) aren't available from the supplier I used (Amazon), but THIS source on Amazon may suffice: https://www.amazon.com/Fytoo-Battery-Aircraft-Helicopter-Accessories/dp/B0856WWW48/  They have the Molex connector on them, but check the polarity to make sure the connections match the Morserino. You also get a nifty charger for them. I'm tempted to get a set of these, partly to test them out, but also to get that charger!

These batteries say they have protection circuits, but only for overcharge and short-circuit. Nothing is said explicitly about overdischarge, but the overdischarge process frequently creates an internal short-circuit, so maybe it'd work...but since it isn't mentioned explicitly, I wouldn't expect them to protect for that. I don't know that my batteries are overdischarge protected either, but I always use the hard switch, and ignore that the Sleep function even exists.

For an explanation of the overdischarge process, see here: https://www.nature.com/articles/srep30248

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
73,
Gwen, NG3P


On Wed, Jul 29, 2020 at 7:58 AM Mike Stone <micacycle@...> wrote:
Both a friend of mine and have had a situation where or batteries lost their charge within a few days when in the Morserino, and in both cases neither battery would take a charge, either using the Morserino or a drop in charger.  I presume that we hadn’t turned off our Morserinos after using them, but my question is whether or not it’s normal that these small batteries, once discharged, cannot be recharged.  The two batteries were of different makes.

On Jul 29, 2020, at 6:26 AM, Tim McClellan <mcclellan.tim@...> wrote:

Hi. I appear to have successfully connected my new Morserino to my home wi-fi network (My Wi-fi router details appear in ‘check wi-fi’ on the device) but I have a problem in getting to the screen on my pc or iPad to access the ‘cq.morserino.info’ server.
I’m looking for some advice, please, on how to access the internet page (and hence get to the third field) to enter the server details once the Morserino has initially been set up to access Wi-fi. The initial set up was fine but I did not enter any details in the third field at that time.  I appreciate that once set up, entering ‘m32.local’ does not take me to the page on my computer to input the appropriate details. 
I can’t find details on how to do this, I am sure it will be straightforward and something that I have missed.  
Much appreciated.  73. Tim G4XWJ 


vince adams
 

Laura
Thats a good idea!

-

73, Vince KD7TWW


From: main@morserino.groups.io <main@morserino.groups.io> on behalf of Laura Robertson via groups.io <lflorl@...>
Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2020 9:40 AM
To: main@morserino.groups.io <main@morserino.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [morserino] Dead Battery
 
Could a scheduled Zoom Morserino forum get on the calendar?  Maybe a collaborative effort live can help all.  I know I’d benefit from it.




On Jul 29, 2020, at 10:51 AM, Gwen Patton <ardrhi@...> wrote:


Make sure whatever battery you get for the Morserino has protection circuits built in, not only for overcharge prevention, but for overDIScharge prevention. From the basic design of the Morserino, if you use the "Put To Sleep" option, this is a SOFT shutdown -- it's still sitting there, cycling, polling every so often to detect if you hit the button again. This will, in a few days, drain the battery. Get into the habit of ALWAYS shutting it off with the slide switch.

LiPo batteries that don't have overdischarge protection circuits will discharge so far that the energy needed to kick it back into a charged state is higher than the overcharge limit, so it won't charge anymore. It's like letting a car battery discharge too deeply -- it causes irreversible chemical changes or states that will no longer allow the battery to build a charge again. All charging a battery does is put energy back into the chemical reaction, reversing the reaction that gave up power to your device. If that reaction can no longer take place because the agents in the battery have been completely exhausted, you can't reverse that process anymore by charging it. The battery is toast, and you need a new one that hasn't been completely exhausted.

In lead-acid batteries, lead "whiskers" grow that short out one or more cells when you overdischarge it. Charging won't dissolve those whiskers and restore the path that lets that cell charge again. Instead, it does what any other short would do -- it turns your charge energy into heat in that cell, and can cause the battery to explode. So any overcharge circuit will keep it from absorbing that much energy, lest it cause the battery to suffer a Sudden Entropic Event Rapid Disassembly. (Leaving you SEERD. hi hi)

So when you get a replacement battery, make sure it has both overcharge and overDIScharge circuitry...or better yet, get into the habit of shutting it down with the manual hard switch. Soft switches do NOT turn the device off, and never did.

The batteries I bought (by Tattu) aren't available from the supplier I used (Amazon), but THIS source on Amazon may suffice: https://www.amazon.com/Fytoo-Battery-Aircraft-Helicopter-Accessories/dp/B0856WWW48/  They have the Molex connector on them, but check the polarity to make sure the connections match the Morserino. You also get a nifty charger for them. I'm tempted to get a set of these, partly to test them out, but also to get that charger!

These batteries say they have protection circuits, but only for overcharge and short-circuit. Nothing is said explicitly about overdischarge, but the overdischarge process frequently creates an internal short-circuit, so maybe it'd work...but since it isn't mentioned explicitly, I wouldn't expect them to protect for that. I don't know that my batteries are overdischarge protected either, but I always use the hard switch, and ignore that the Sleep function even exists.

For an explanation of the overdischarge process, see here: https://www.nature.com/articles/srep30248

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
73,
Gwen, NG3P


On Wed, Jul 29, 2020 at 7:58 AM Mike Stone <micacycle@...> wrote:
Both a friend of mine and have had a situation where or batteries lost their charge within a few days when in the Morserino, and in both cases neither battery would take a charge, either using the Morserino or a drop in charger.  I presume that we hadn’t turned off our Morserinos after using them, but my question is whether or not it’s normal that these small batteries, once discharged, cannot be recharged.  The two batteries were of different makes.

On Jul 29, 2020, at 6:26 AM, Tim McClellan <mcclellan.tim@...> wrote:

Hi. I appear to have successfully connected my new Morserino to my home wi-fi network (My Wi-fi router details appear in ‘check wi-fi’ on the device) but I have a problem in getting to the screen on my pc or iPad to access the ‘cq.morserino.info’ server.
I’m looking for some advice, please, on how to access the internet page (and hence get to the third field) to enter the server details once the Morserino has initially been set up to access Wi-fi. The initial set up was fine but I did not enter any details in the third field at that time.  I appreciate that once set up, entering ‘m32.local’ does not take me to the page on my computer to input the appropriate details. 
I can’t find details on how to do this, I am sure it will be straightforward and something that I have missed.  
Much appreciated.  73. Tim G4XWJ 


vince adams
 

Gwen
Does the Morserino charge the battery as well?  How quickly?

-

73, Vince KD7TWW


From: vince adams <vince@...>
Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2020 4:59 PM
To: main@morserino.groups.io <main@morserino.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [morserino] Dead Battery
 
Laura
Thats a good idea!

-

73, Vince KD7TWW

From: main@morserino.groups.io <main@morserino.groups.io> on behalf of Laura Robertson via groups.io <lflorl@...>
Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2020 9:40 AM
To: main@morserino.groups.io <main@morserino.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [morserino] Dead Battery
 
Could a scheduled Zoom Morserino forum get on the calendar?  Maybe a collaborative effort live can help all.  I know I’d benefit from it.




On Jul 29, 2020, at 10:51 AM, Gwen Patton <ardrhi@...> wrote:


Make sure whatever battery you get for the Morserino has protection circuits built in, not only for overcharge prevention, but for overDIScharge prevention. From the basic design of the Morserino, if you use the "Put To Sleep" option, this is a SOFT shutdown -- it's still sitting there, cycling, polling every so often to detect if you hit the button again. This will, in a few days, drain the battery. Get into the habit of ALWAYS shutting it off with the slide switch.

LiPo batteries that don't have overdischarge protection circuits will discharge so far that the energy needed to kick it back into a charged state is higher than the overcharge limit, so it won't charge anymore. It's like letting a car battery discharge too deeply -- it causes irreversible chemical changes or states that will no longer allow the battery to build a charge again. All charging a battery does is put energy back into the chemical reaction, reversing the reaction that gave up power to your device. If that reaction can no longer take place because the agents in the battery have been completely exhausted, you can't reverse that process anymore by charging it. The battery is toast, and you need a new one that hasn't been completely exhausted.

In lead-acid batteries, lead "whiskers" grow that short out one or more cells when you overdischarge it. Charging won't dissolve those whiskers and restore the path that lets that cell charge again. Instead, it does what any other short would do -- it turns your charge energy into heat in that cell, and can cause the battery to explode. So any overcharge circuit will keep it from absorbing that much energy, lest it cause the battery to suffer a Sudden Entropic Event Rapid Disassembly. (Leaving you SEERD. hi hi)

So when you get a replacement battery, make sure it has both overcharge and overDIScharge circuitry...or better yet, get into the habit of shutting it down with the manual hard switch. Soft switches do NOT turn the device off, and never did.

The batteries I bought (by Tattu) aren't available from the supplier I used (Amazon), but THIS source on Amazon may suffice: https://www.amazon.com/Fytoo-Battery-Aircraft-Helicopter-Accessories/dp/B0856WWW48/  They have the Molex connector on them, but check the polarity to make sure the connections match the Morserino. You also get a nifty charger for them. I'm tempted to get a set of these, partly to test them out, but also to get that charger!

These batteries say they have protection circuits, but only for overcharge and short-circuit. Nothing is said explicitly about overdischarge, but the overdischarge process frequently creates an internal short-circuit, so maybe it'd work...but since it isn't mentioned explicitly, I wouldn't expect them to protect for that. I don't know that my batteries are overdischarge protected either, but I always use the hard switch, and ignore that the Sleep function even exists.

For an explanation of the overdischarge process, see here: https://www.nature.com/articles/srep30248

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
73,
Gwen, NG3P


On Wed, Jul 29, 2020 at 7:58 AM Mike Stone <micacycle@...> wrote:
Both a friend of mine and have had a situation where or batteries lost their charge within a few days when in the Morserino, and in both cases neither battery would take a charge, either using the Morserino or a drop in charger.  I presume that we hadn’t turned off our Morserinos after using them, but my question is whether or not it’s normal that these small batteries, once discharged, cannot be recharged.  The two batteries were of different makes.

On Jul 29, 2020, at 6:26 AM, Tim McClellan <mcclellan.tim@...> wrote:

Hi. I appear to have successfully connected my new Morserino to my home wi-fi network (My Wi-fi router details appear in ‘check wi-fi’ on the device) but I have a problem in getting to the screen on my pc or iPad to access the ‘cq.morserino.info’ server.
I’m looking for some advice, please, on how to access the internet page (and hence get to the third field) to enter the server details once the Morserino has initially been set up to access Wi-fi. The initial set up was fine but I did not enter any details in the third field at that time.  I appreciate that once set up, entering ‘m32.local’ does not take me to the page on my computer to input the appropriate details. 
I can’t find details on how to do this, I am sure it will be straightforward and something that I have missed.  
Much appreciated.  73. Tim G4XWJ 


Willi, OE1WKL
 

Yes, it does. 100 mA. So for an empty 600 mA battery about 6 hours. Slow, but good for battery life ( leads to higher number of charging cycles).

73
Willi

Von meinem Mobiltelefon gesendet

Am 30.07.2020 um 02:00 schrieb vince adams <vince@...>:


Gwen
Does the Morserino charge the battery as well?  How quickly?

-

73, Vince KD7TWW

From: vince adams <vince@...>
Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2020 4:59 PM
To: main@morserino.groups.io <main@morserino.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [morserino] Dead Battery
 
Laura
Thats a good idea!

-

73, Vince KD7TWW

From: main@morserino.groups.io <main@morserino.groups.io> on behalf of Laura Robertson via groups.io <lflorl@...>
Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2020 9:40 AM
To: main@morserino.groups.io <main@morserino.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [morserino] Dead Battery
 
Could a scheduled Zoom Morserino forum get on the calendar?  Maybe a collaborative effort live can help all.  I know I’d benefit from it.




On Jul 29, 2020, at 10:51 AM, Gwen Patton <ardrhi@...> wrote:


Make sure whatever battery you get for the Morserino has protection circuits built in, not only for overcharge prevention, but for overDIScharge prevention. From the basic design of the Morserino, if you use the "Put To Sleep" option, this is a SOFT shutdown -- it's still sitting there, cycling, polling every so often to detect if you hit the button again. This will, in a few days, drain the battery. Get into the habit of ALWAYS shutting it off with the slide switch.

LiPo batteries that don't have overdischarge protection circuits will discharge so far that the energy needed to kick it back into a charged state is higher than the overcharge limit, so it won't charge anymore. It's like letting a car battery discharge too deeply -- it causes irreversible chemical changes or states that will no longer allow the battery to build a charge again. All charging a battery does is put energy back into the chemical reaction, reversing the reaction that gave up power to your device. If that reaction can no longer take place because the agents in the battery have been completely exhausted, you can't reverse that process anymore by charging it. The battery is toast, and you need a new one that hasn't been completely exhausted.

In lead-acid batteries, lead "whiskers" grow that short out one or more cells when you overdischarge it. Charging won't dissolve those whiskers and restore the path that lets that cell charge again. Instead, it does what any other short would do -- it turns your charge energy into heat in that cell, and can cause the battery to explode. So any overcharge circuit will keep it from absorbing that much energy, lest it cause the battery to suffer a Sudden Entropic Event Rapid Disassembly. (Leaving you SEERD. hi hi)

So when you get a replacement battery, make sure it has both overcharge and overDIScharge circuitry...or better yet, get into the habit of shutting it down with the manual hard switch. Soft switches do NOT turn the device off, and never did.

The batteries I bought (by Tattu) aren't available from the supplier I used (Amazon), but THIS source on Amazon may suffice: https://www.amazon.com/Fytoo-Battery-Aircraft-Helicopter-Accessories/dp/B0856WWW48/  They have the Molex connector on them, but check the polarity to make sure the connections match the Morserino. You also get a nifty charger for them. I'm tempted to get a set of these, partly to test them out, but also to get that charger!

These batteries say they have protection circuits, but only for overcharge and short-circuit. Nothing is said explicitly about overdischarge, but the overdischarge process frequently creates an internal short-circuit, so maybe it'd work...but since it isn't mentioned explicitly, I wouldn't expect them to protect for that. I don't know that my batteries are overdischarge protected either, but I always use the hard switch, and ignore that the Sleep function even exists.

For an explanation of the overdischarge process, see here: https://www.nature.com/articles/srep30248

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
73,
Gwen, NG3P


On Wed, Jul 29, 2020 at 7:58 AM Mike Stone <micacycle@...> wrote:
Both a friend of mine and have had a situation where or batteries lost their charge within a few days when in the Morserino, and in both cases neither battery would take a charge, either using the Morserino or a drop in charger.  I presume that we hadn’t turned off our Morserinos after using them, but my question is whether or not it’s normal that these small batteries, once discharged, cannot be recharged.  The two batteries were of different makes.

On Jul 29, 2020, at 6:26 AM, Tim McClellan <mcclellan.tim@...> wrote:

Hi. I appear to have successfully connected my new Morserino to my home wi-fi network (My Wi-fi router details appear in ‘check wi-fi’ on the device) but I have a problem in getting to the screen on my pc or iPad to access the ‘cq.morserino.info’ server.
I’m looking for some advice, please, on how to access the internet page (and hence get to the third field) to enter the server details once the Morserino has initially been set up to access Wi-fi. The initial set up was fine but I did not enter any details in the third field at that time.  I appreciate that once set up, entering ‘m32.local’ does not take me to the page on my computer to input the appropriate details. 
I can’t find details on how to do this, I am sure it will be straightforward and something that I have missed.  
Much appreciated.  73. Tim G4XWJ 


vince adams
 

Willi
Thank you
-

73, Vince KD7TWW


From: main@morserino.groups.io <main@morserino.groups.io> on behalf of Willi, OE1WKL via groups.io <willi@...>
Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2020 5:03 PM
To: main@morserino.groups.io <main@morserino.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [morserino] Dead Battery
 
Yes, it does. 100 mA. So for an empty 600 mA battery about 6 hours. Slow, but good for battery life ( leads to higher number of charging cycles).

73
Willi

Von meinem Mobiltelefon gesendet

Am 30.07.2020 um 02:00 schrieb vince adams <vince@...>:


Gwen
Does the Morserino charge the battery as well?  How quickly?

-

73, Vince KD7TWW

From: vince adams <vince@...>
Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2020 4:59 PM
To: main@morserino.groups.io <main@morserino.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [morserino] Dead Battery
 
Laura
Thats a good idea!

-

73, Vince KD7TWW

From: main@morserino.groups.io <main@morserino.groups.io> on behalf of Laura Robertson via groups.io <lflorl@...>
Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2020 9:40 AM
To: main@morserino.groups.io <main@morserino.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [morserino] Dead Battery
 
Could a scheduled Zoom Morserino forum get on the calendar?  Maybe a collaborative effort live can help all.  I know I’d benefit from it.




On Jul 29, 2020, at 10:51 AM, Gwen Patton <ardrhi@...> wrote:


Make sure whatever battery you get for the Morserino has protection circuits built in, not only for overcharge prevention, but for overDIScharge prevention. From the basic design of the Morserino, if you use the "Put To Sleep" option, this is a SOFT shutdown -- it's still sitting there, cycling, polling every so often to detect if you hit the button again. This will, in a few days, drain the battery. Get into the habit of ALWAYS shutting it off with the slide switch.

LiPo batteries that don't have overdischarge protection circuits will discharge so far that the energy needed to kick it back into a charged state is higher than the overcharge limit, so it won't charge anymore. It's like letting a car battery discharge too deeply -- it causes irreversible chemical changes or states that will no longer allow the battery to build a charge again. All charging a battery does is put energy back into the chemical reaction, reversing the reaction that gave up power to your device. If that reaction can no longer take place because the agents in the battery have been completely exhausted, you can't reverse that process anymore by charging it. The battery is toast, and you need a new one that hasn't been completely exhausted.

In lead-acid batteries, lead "whiskers" grow that short out one or more cells when you overdischarge it. Charging won't dissolve those whiskers and restore the path that lets that cell charge again. Instead, it does what any other short would do -- it turns your charge energy into heat in that cell, and can cause the battery to explode. So any overcharge circuit will keep it from absorbing that much energy, lest it cause the battery to suffer a Sudden Entropic Event Rapid Disassembly. (Leaving you SEERD. hi hi)

So when you get a replacement battery, make sure it has both overcharge and overDIScharge circuitry...or better yet, get into the habit of shutting it down with the manual hard switch. Soft switches do NOT turn the device off, and never did.

The batteries I bought (by Tattu) aren't available from the supplier I used (Amazon), but THIS source on Amazon may suffice: https://www.amazon.com/Fytoo-Battery-Aircraft-Helicopter-Accessories/dp/B0856WWW48/  They have the Molex connector on them, but check the polarity to make sure the connections match the Morserino. You also get a nifty charger for them. I'm tempted to get a set of these, partly to test them out, but also to get that charger!

These batteries say they have protection circuits, but only for overcharge and short-circuit. Nothing is said explicitly about overdischarge, but the overdischarge process frequently creates an internal short-circuit, so maybe it'd work...but since it isn't mentioned explicitly, I wouldn't expect them to protect for that. I don't know that my batteries are overdischarge protected either, but I always use the hard switch, and ignore that the Sleep function even exists.

For an explanation of the overdischarge process, see here: https://www.nature.com/articles/srep30248

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
73,
Gwen, NG3P


On Wed, Jul 29, 2020 at 7:58 AM Mike Stone <micacycle@...> wrote:
Both a friend of mine and have had a situation where or batteries lost their charge within a few days when in the Morserino, and in both cases neither battery would take a charge, either using the Morserino or a drop in charger.  I presume that we hadn’t turned off our Morserinos after using them, but my question is whether or not it’s normal that these small batteries, once discharged, cannot be recharged.  The two batteries were of different makes.

On Jul 29, 2020, at 6:26 AM, Tim McClellan <mcclellan.tim@...> wrote:

Hi. I appear to have successfully connected my new Morserino to my home wi-fi network (My Wi-fi router details appear in ‘check wi-fi’ on the device) but I have a problem in getting to the screen on my pc or iPad to access the ‘cq.morserino.info’ server.
I’m looking for some advice, please, on how to access the internet page (and hence get to the third field) to enter the server details once the Morserino has initially been set up to access Wi-fi. The initial set up was fine but I did not enter any details in the third field at that time.  I appreciate that once set up, entering ‘m32.local’ does not take me to the page on my computer to input the appropriate details. 
I can’t find details on how to do this, I am sure it will be straightforward and something that I have missed.  
Much appreciated.  73. Tim G4XWJ 


vince adams
 

Willi
How as your holiday?
Vince

-

73, Vince KD7TWW


From: vince adams <vince@...>
Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2020 5:10 PM
To: main@morserino.groups.io <main@morserino.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [morserino] Dead Battery
 
Willi
Thank you
-

73, Vince KD7TWW

From: main@morserino.groups.io <main@morserino.groups.io> on behalf of Willi, OE1WKL via groups.io <willi@...>
Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2020 5:03 PM
To: main@morserino.groups.io <main@morserino.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [morserino] Dead Battery
 
Yes, it does. 100 mA. So for an empty 600 mA battery about 6 hours. Slow, but good for battery life ( leads to higher number of charging cycles).

73
Willi

Von meinem Mobiltelefon gesendet

Am 30.07.2020 um 02:00 schrieb vince adams <vince@...>:


Gwen
Does the Morserino charge the battery as well?  How quickly?

-

73, Vince KD7TWW

From: vince adams <vince@...>
Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2020 4:59 PM
To: main@morserino.groups.io <main@morserino.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [morserino] Dead Battery
 
Laura
Thats a good idea!

-

73, Vince KD7TWW

From: main@morserino.groups.io <main@morserino.groups.io> on behalf of Laura Robertson via groups.io <lflorl@...>
Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2020 9:40 AM
To: main@morserino.groups.io <main@morserino.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [morserino] Dead Battery
 
Could a scheduled Zoom Morserino forum get on the calendar?  Maybe a collaborative effort live can help all.  I know I’d benefit from it.




On Jul 29, 2020, at 10:51 AM, Gwen Patton <ardrhi@...> wrote:


Make sure whatever battery you get for the Morserino has protection circuits built in, not only for overcharge prevention, but for overDIScharge prevention. From the basic design of the Morserino, if you use the "Put To Sleep" option, this is a SOFT shutdown -- it's still sitting there, cycling, polling every so often to detect if you hit the button again. This will, in a few days, drain the battery. Get into the habit of ALWAYS shutting it off with the slide switch.

LiPo batteries that don't have overdischarge protection circuits will discharge so far that the energy needed to kick it back into a charged state is higher than the overcharge limit, so it won't charge anymore. It's like letting a car battery discharge too deeply -- it causes irreversible chemical changes or states that will no longer allow the battery to build a charge again. All charging a battery does is put energy back into the chemical reaction, reversing the reaction that gave up power to your device. If that reaction can no longer take place because the agents in the battery have been completely exhausted, you can't reverse that process anymore by charging it. The battery is toast, and you need a new one that hasn't been completely exhausted.

In lead-acid batteries, lead "whiskers" grow that short out one or more cells when you overdischarge it. Charging won't dissolve those whiskers and restore the path that lets that cell charge again. Instead, it does what any other short would do -- it turns your charge energy into heat in that cell, and can cause the battery to explode. So any overcharge circuit will keep it from absorbing that much energy, lest it cause the battery to suffer a Sudden Entropic Event Rapid Disassembly. (Leaving you SEERD. hi hi)

So when you get a replacement battery, make sure it has both overcharge and overDIScharge circuitry...or better yet, get into the habit of shutting it down with the manual hard switch. Soft switches do NOT turn the device off, and never did.

The batteries I bought (by Tattu) aren't available from the supplier I used (Amazon), but THIS source on Amazon may suffice: https://www.amazon.com/Fytoo-Battery-Aircraft-Helicopter-Accessories/dp/B0856WWW48/  They have the Molex connector on them, but check the polarity to make sure the connections match the Morserino. You also get a nifty charger for them. I'm tempted to get a set of these, partly to test them out, but also to get that charger!

These batteries say they have protection circuits, but only for overcharge and short-circuit. Nothing is said explicitly about overdischarge, but the overdischarge process frequently creates an internal short-circuit, so maybe it'd work...but since it isn't mentioned explicitly, I wouldn't expect them to protect for that. I don't know that my batteries are overdischarge protected either, but I always use the hard switch, and ignore that the Sleep function even exists.

For an explanation of the overdischarge process, see here: https://www.nature.com/articles/srep30248

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
73,
Gwen, NG3P


On Wed, Jul 29, 2020 at 7:58 AM Mike Stone <micacycle@...> wrote:
Both a friend of mine and have had a situation where or batteries lost their charge within a few days when in the Morserino, and in both cases neither battery would take a charge, either using the Morserino or a drop in charger.  I presume that we hadn’t turned off our Morserinos after using them, but my question is whether or not it’s normal that these small batteries, once discharged, cannot be recharged.  The two batteries were of different makes.

On Jul 29, 2020, at 6:26 AM, Tim McClellan <mcclellan.tim@...> wrote:

Hi. I appear to have successfully connected my new Morserino to my home wi-fi network (My Wi-fi router details appear in ‘check wi-fi’ on the device) but I have a problem in getting to the screen on my pc or iPad to access the ‘cq.morserino.info’ server.
I’m looking for some advice, please, on how to access the internet page (and hence get to the third field) to enter the server details once the Morserino has initially been set up to access Wi-fi. The initial set up was fine but I did not enter any details in the third field at that time.  I appreciate that once set up, entering ‘m32.local’ does not take me to the page on my computer to input the appropriate details. 
I can’t find details on how to do this, I am sure it will be straightforward and something that I have missed.  
Much appreciated.  73. Tim G4XWJ 


Jaroslav Škarvada
 

Hi,

does anybody know whether the recommended Tattu TA-30C-600-1S1P has deep discharge protection? I wasn't able to find anything about its protection circuits on the net, so I guess it's not protected. Maybe somebody dissembled it or has the information, so I am asking :)

73! Jaroslav, OK2JRQ

Gwen Patton napsal(a):

Make sure whatever battery you get for the Morserino has protection circuits built in, not only for overcharge prevention, but for overDIScharge prevention. From the basic design of the Morserino, if you use the "Put To Sleep" option, this is a SOFT shutdown -- it's still sitting there, cycling, polling every so often to detect if you hit the button again. This will, in a few days, drain the battery. Get into the habit of ALWAYS shutting it off with the slide switch.
LiPo batteries that don't have overdischarge protection circuits will discharge so far that the energy needed to kick it back into a charged state is higher than the overcharge limit, so it won't charge anymore. It's like letting a car battery discharge too deeply -- it causes irreversible chemical changes or states that will no longer allow the battery to build a charge again. All charging a battery does is put energy back into the chemical reaction, reversing the reaction that gave up power to your device. If that reaction can no longer take place because the agents in the battery have been completely exhausted, you can't reverse that process anymore by charging it. The battery is toast, and you need a new one that hasn't been completely exhausted.
In lead-acid batteries, lead "whiskers" grow that short out one or more cells when you overdischarge it. Charging won't dissolve those whiskers and restore the path that lets that cell charge again. Instead, it does what any other short would do -- it turns your charge energy into heat in that cell, and can cause the battery to explode. So any overcharge circuit will keep it from absorbing that much energy, lest it cause the battery to suffer a Sudden Entropic Event Rapid Disassembly. (Leaving you SEERD. hi hi)
So when you get a replacement battery, make sure it has both overcharge and overDIScharge circuitry...or better yet, get into the habit of shutting it down with the manual hard switch. Soft switches do NOT turn the device off, and never did.
The batteries I bought (by Tattu) aren't available from the supplier I used (Amazon), but THIS source on Amazon may suffice: https://www.amazon.com/Fytoo-Battery-Aircraft-Helicopter-Accessories/dp/B0856WWW48/
They have the Molex connector on them, but check the polarity to make sure the connections match the Morserino. You also get a nifty charger for them. I'm tempted to get a set of these, partly to test them out, but also to get that charger!
These batteries say they have protection circuits, but only for overcharge and short-circuit. Nothing is said explicitly about overdischarge, but the overdischarge process frequently creates an internal short-circuit, so maybe it'd work...but since it isn't mentioned explicitly, I wouldn't expect them to protect for that. I don't know that my batteries are overdischarge protected either, but I always use the hard switch, and ignore that the Sleep function even exists.
For an explanation of the overdischarge process, see here: https://www.nature.com/articles/srep30248
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
73,
Gwen, NG3P
On Wed, Jul 29, 2020 at 7:58 AM Mike Stone <micacycle@... <mailto:micacycle@...>> wrote:
Both a friend of mine and have had a situation where or batteries
lost their charge within a few days when in the Morserino, and in
both cases neither battery would take a charge, either using the
Morserino or a drop in charger.  I presume that we hadn’t turned off
our Morserinos after using them, but my question is whether or not
it’s normal that these small batteries, once discharged, cannot be
recharged.  The two batteries were of different makes.

On Jul 29, 2020, at 6:26 AM, Tim McClellan
<mcclellan.tim@... <mailto:mcclellan.tim@...>> wrote:

Hi. I appear to have successfully connected my new Morserino to my
home wi-fi network (My Wi-fi router details appear in ‘check
wi-fi’ on the device) but I have a problem in getting to the
screen on my pc or iPad to access the ‘cq.morserino.info
<http://cq.morserino.info>’ server.
I’m looking for some advice, please, on how to access the internet
page (and hence get to the third field) to enter the server
details once the Morserino has initially been set up to access
Wi-fi. The initial set up was fine but I did not enter any details
in the third field at that time.  I appreciate that once set up,
entering ‘m32.local’ does not take me to the page on my computer
to input the appropriate details.
I can’t find details on how to do this, I am sure it will be
straightforward and something that I have missed.
Much appreciated.  73. Tim G4XWJ